Less is more, or is it fewer?
Jan 8th, 2009 | By John Roach | Category: GrammarWhen @rachelwriter suggested I write about less and fewer, I balked. After all, it’s been done to death; everyone knows the rule by now, right?
Then I realized that I do have something to add.
The rule of thumb is that less is used with mass nouns and fewer with count nouns:
| I have fewer pimples now that I’m 37. | She has less interest in me now. |
Piece of cake. Naturally, sticklers for grammar fume when they wait in the “10 items or less” lane at the grocery store.
However, there is one fine distinction that not many are aware of — less is used with a singular noun.
I had one less Barbie doll after the noodle incident.
Even though Barbie doll is a count noun because you can have two Barbie dolls, it takes less because you’re only dealing with one.
By the way, if you’re interested in the history of the rule, check out Arrant Pedantry’s post on the history of less and fewer.
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This article was written by John Roach http://prowritingtips.com John is a writer and copy editor. You can follow him on twitter at @johnwroachiii. To see more posts click here |
Good points, John, but mostly I’m here because I liked your post title so much! (grin)
Nice! And that’s a grammar rule people trip over a lot, even if it has been done to death.
Deb: Thanks! Writing catchy headlines about grammar issues is a hobby of mine.
Merrilee: It’s probably just because less is easier to say. It’s a fast-paced world out there, and you never know when you might that syllable back.
Of course, if you do read the linked post, you’ll find out that the “rule” is bogus… just another shibboleth.
Ridger: Calling it “just another shibboleth” is true in some sense, false in some sense, and meaningless in some sense. Formal writing requires adherence to certain conventions, regardless of their origins.
I see that you’re also a Murakami fan. Can you recommend any similar authors?
The thing is that the rule as John Roach has stated it is not actually followed by English writers. Writers follow a different rule: “less” is used with count nouns, and has been used with count nouns for 1000 years. Motivated Grammar explains it well:
http://motivatedgrammar.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/10-items-or-less-is-just-fine/
Goofy: You’ll notice that I didn’t fume about grocery stores myself.
Reading through the Motivated Grammar article, I found no inconsistencies with what I wrote. In “10 items or less” and similar usages. less is not treated as an adjective, but as a noun. The rule doesn’t apply.
Same with the “four thousand dollars less” example. In this case less is the noun, four thousand dollars is the adjective. If you doubt that, try taking out the adjective and see which remains closer to the truth: “I made less this year than last year,” or “I made four thousand dollars than last year.”
The fewer/less rule applies only to less used as an adjective. When its used as a noun, the rule just doesn’t apply.
Most other confusion stems from dificulty determining what is a mass noun and what is a count noun. Not all nouns that end in s are count nouns.
Thanks for the link to Motivated Grammar. I’ll have to start reading it.
But the rule as you wrote it makes no mention of when “less” is an adjective and when it is a noun. Motivated Grammar makes no mention of that either. If you amended your rule to say that “less” can be used with count nouns in the constructions “or less” and “less than” then it would be closer to how it is really used.
I’m not sure you can so easily say that “less” is a noun in some cases and an adjective in others. If “less” is a noun in these sentences, then why can’t we replace it with another noun:
I made less this year than last year.
*I made money this year than last year.
I made four thousand dollars less than last year.
*I made four thousand dollars money than last year.
I now eat seven pounds or less of avocados each day.
*I now eat seven pounds or vegetables of avocados each day.
If “less” is a noun in these sentences, then it follows that “fewer” is also a noun in the construction “10 items or fewer”.
I didn’t mention that adjective/noun distinction for space considerations. The canonical rule covers 90% of usages; further explanation delves into edge cases, which can be sticky.
The issue that divides us is what has changed. If I may put words in your mouth, you believe that the rule has changed. (Or, perhaps more accurately, some dead white guy decided he wanted to make a rule, but didn’t think it through.) I believe that the word less has changed, as Bill Walsh posits.
Saying it’s can also be used as a noun makes more sense to me. Take “10 items or less,” for example. You can either say less is a noun or you can say “than 10 items” is ellided. Same with “Last year, I made $100,000, but this year I made less.” Either less is a noun or “than $100,000″ is implied. Noun-less is a word we can define (which I won’t attempt to do); Amending the rule creates a complicated mess to account for words which are just not there.
As for why fewer isn’t used as a noun, people just don’t use it that way. Less is a better default because it’s shorter and just plain sounds better.
In the end, I think a good rule of thumb is this: In formal writing, use the rule in your style guide when its application is obvious; in all other cases, use what sounds best.
I don’t think the rule has changed. I think Baker’s rule, which also seems to be your rule, never accurately described usage. I don’t see the problem in writing rules so they’re specific. I’m not sure, without looking at the facts, whether your rule covers 90% of usage, or 75% or whatever.
If you think “less” is a noun, fair enuf, but you haven’t convinced me. Nouns can be preceded by “the” and “a”, they can be modified by adjectives, they can be pluralized. “Less” can do none of those things.
I’m not familiar enough with the history of “less” to say whether the usage of “less” has changed or not.
on the other hand… the less, a little less. Perhaps it can be noun. But I’m not yet convinced it’s a noun in the constructions we’re talking about.
Because Goofy is too modest, I’ll link to his post on less and fewer.